PVP Rewards now permanent for 1.6 patch...

[Zandur]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=3782632&P=1

"Honor system reward item’s rank requirement will now be based on a characters highest lifetime rank rather than the character’s current rank."

Furthermore, from the patch notes:
" Grand Marshal and High Warlord PvP Honor rewards have been updated with improved statistics and new unique art."

IMO, huge change by Blizzard that translates to: The Honor System has failed miserably.

[Ravenschylde]

posts on the Test Realm forum are saying that this is not the case at present, People who have tried to equip gear that was for a rank higher than their present found it non-functional, acting as if broken.

Of course. the blue post said that "Public Test Realm patch notes are not fixed in stone" so who knows what will happen

[Pdog]

I hope it stays borked forever and I hope that they dont actually implement this into the game. The thought of having no skill rogues end up with the same gear as raiding rogues just because they have time to sit in queue for CTF all day I dont like. The thought of no skill Turn the Tide in that gear also makes me sick. Sure rewards should be decent for pvp cause it does take a lot of work but its not comparable with having to just do it as one person as compared to getting 40 people geared and running instances. Then again maybe BWL will have some serious gear in there for us, but teir 2 warrior stuff isnt anything to write home about. The set bonuses are the thing that bothers me on these items because might has a better 3 peice set bonus than wrath (ahhhhh)

Either way no <3 for Keeping highest rank acheived or Darkhealer!

[Ravenschylde]

my biggest gripe with the whole PvP gear issue is the fact that in Alterac Valley (my preferred BG place) You get all these damned faction/contrib farmers that come in just to do that, and not really help with the goal of the BG being to win. And these people take up active slots, while people who want to come in and play the BG as was intended, get left out.

combination of bad design on Blizz's part for making it subsceptible to the farming type, and the people that want to only exploit this system for personal gain. :(

And I'm pretty sure that the ones that are the highest up on PvP rank ladder are ones like those I described. Oh well, I'm a pally, the chances of me getting enough contrib to get up to the point where I could get decent gear is about nil anyhow.

[Theras]

Personally, I'm exploiting the battlgrounds for faction and honour points. Stand up on the hill next to the graveyard out of sight, ninjaloot body parts for the win.

[Vrukolakus]

That reminds me. Is there an addon that helps you loot quicker?

Vruk

[Aranoth]

<hijack>
Shift Clicking (I think that's it, anyway) will auto-loot everything on the corpse. There's also an AddOn called QuickLoot that adjusts the loot window so that the next item to be looted is always under your cursor.
</hijack>

I also think the whole keeping PvP rewards after losing rank is a bad idea. Isn't that the whole point of decaying rank, forcing you to keep PvPing to keep your shiny toys active? It's good news for people like me who don't go out and PvP all that often, but it seems slightly unfair to those that are out there all the time fighting to keep their rank up.

[Zandur]

My take is that the "rental" concept was based on a ladder system contingent on competition fueled by rewards. If you reach Grand Marshal/Warlord status, you had earned the privilege to wield the most powerful gear. There could only be one.

Think of it in terms of our presidency. There can only be one who has the power to declare war. Now what if all of the former living presidents (Bush sr, Clinton, Carter) still had the power to declare war on a country?

By destroying the rental system, there is nothing special about being numero uno anymore, except for bragging rights. There is no incentive to hold the top spot anymore (i.e. keep Rank 14 epics) since many other former Marshals will now have the same epic gear.

Why should the casual gamer (the majority of paying customers) care about a competitive ladder system that only rewards hardcore enthusiasts? Blizz caved in because it was in their best financial interests. /golfclap

Additionally, Blizz has now expanded the loot tables to cater to the casual gamer. Why run lower instances for your blues when you can get to rank 10 and get a full set?

Last, the issue of new instance epic gear (BWL) will have to now be balanced with epic PVP gear. If PVE epic are better, then PVPers will whine for new/better gear. Then the issue: will PVP player who was once rank 14 (and now rank 5), be able to purchase the new PVP epics? Should Bill Clinton be able to read the latest classified info? Then of course, PVE'ers will be pissed b/c they actually had to earn their new epics by running new instances. My 0.10.

[Aranoth]

I can very easily see there becoming a parity between Battlegrounds and Raid zones. With the current BGs, Molten Core-quality epics are available to the PvP crowd. With BWL coming out nobody is quite sure what to expect in terms of loot, beyond completing the Tier 2 epic sets. It's safe to assume that average weapon DPS will increase again, thusly upsetting Mr. PvPer whose shiny toy isn't quite as shiny. To rectify this, Blizzard will release a new Battleground with BWL-quality epics, furthering the cycle. At least, that's how I see it falling out.

[Anonymous]

True, even if blizzard does release more epic-quality stuff for BGs to compensate for the BWL, it will be only a select few people to receive them. I think right now the Cap on GrandMarshal is 20 (10 horde/10alliance) are only able to receive that title...thus the epic quality weapons. So if BWL...and say blizz does give more BGs...maybe the cap will now be 40 players per sever.....and honestly, in the big picture compared to the amount of people that actively raid....that is just a grain of salt. Nothing to fret over imho.

[Aranoth]

The issue really isn't that the items keep inflating in power. The problem is that, with the new change, anyone can PvP hardcore for a while and get some of those same epic rewards then not PvP a minute ever again, yet keep the ability to use it. If they're going to make reward use based on total rank, there's no real purpose to having rank decay.

[Anonymous]

I think if someone wants to work 4 months + at obtaining a rank to get PvP....that would be fine. lol And that has to be 4 months hardcore PvPing to get up there. I don't think a lot of people are up to that sort of challenge, when they can join highend guilds and get loot within the month. It's more of a Risk Vs. Reward situation and everyone has a different preference.

[Aranoth]

The thing is, though, that there's no actual challenge to climbing the PvP ranks, just time commitment. There's no risk at all and tons of reward.

[Darkhealer]

I need a mod that lets me steal Zhio's contrib points then I can have all the pvp gear! *casts ultra secret point stealer*

[Zelstrom]

The thing is, though, that there's no actual challenge to climbing the PvP ranks, just time commitment. *There's no risk at all and tons of reward.

Same could be said for PvE, the only "risk" I face in a MC raid is a big repair bill.

[Zandur]

It takes a pretty large effort to get 40 people with different personalities together on a regular basis and coordinate successfully.

It doesn't take a large effort to Hardcore PVP (although if you want to WIN everytime it does). The more time you put in, the more successful you will become, it's virtually guaranteed. However, you could put the same time into a large raid and nothing is gauranteed. One guy could wipe your whole effort (i.e. Onyxia).

Furthermore, since Blizz is catering to the casual gamer and wants them to PVP more, don't be surprised if they make it easier to gain ranks up to a certain level.

People claim that you will get epics faster by going the raid route. Initially, you may. But the more time put in, the less your rate of obtaining epics, whereas it's inversely proportional for PVP rewards (you will get more, the more time you put in). In the end, the time put in is about the same to complete your epic set (there's a thread in the WOW general forums with the hour calculations).

[Saevok]

The thing is, though, that there's no actual challenge to climbing the PvP ranks, just time commitment. *There's no risk at all and tons of reward.

Same could be said for PvE, the only "risk" I face in a MC raid is a big repair bill.

Yes, but that's actually a risk you must deal with. What are the downfalls to being killed in PvP? The time you miss zerging more CPs?

PvP is being turned into an MMRPG version of Blade: all the strengths, none of the weaknesses.

No need for 40 people to be in your raid to collect CPs
No repair bills (unless killed byan npc)
No keys/flags/special attunement quests
No randomization of loot you can acquire (attaining a certain rank gives you access to all the items you can use...whereas when you kill Ragnaros, you can't pick and choose which items from his loot table drop).

[Youcant]

just putting up with blizzard till vanguard...it will be eq all over again,starts counting down the days from 400+

[Anonymous]

I need a mod that lets me steal Zhio's contrib points then I can have all the pvp gear! *casts ultra secret point stealer*

Pshh! I'm currently working on my mod called "Zhio'sTopSeekritMoDSoSeekritItDoesn'tHaveANaMeYetS othattheidentitycanneverbeguessed"

which steals your enchants that you have that I want to use, thx.

[Anonymous]

So, PvPing has no risks...I think it does.

PvE has GREATER risks I agree with. But PvE Raiding Content does not require as large a time commitment as PvP does to get epic quality items.

PvP Risks - Dealing with random players. Now, don't get me wrong Random Players are GREAT(yay meeting new people)...but I have noticed since PvPing that I really don't want to group with them haha. They are the reason I usually lose a CTF match or die to land minds in AV. In order to gain any CP whatsoever really in CTF...you have to win...Randomness = You lose. Same for AV...LandMines/GuardTrains/ Etc..add to people losing. You may think that as little risk....grouping with random people, but when PvPing it's the main factor really in determining if you win. You can have all the skill in the world...and lose because of the random people you are grouping with.

I have no clue what the remainder of this post was going to be, but I will post on it later since my brothers are bothering me at the moment and I can't think!!! >_<

[Pdog]

Lemme put it to you this way... *We started mc what 5 months ago and granted I know that we arent raiding as much per day now as things used to be but we spent 4-6 hrs as Dark can attest to learning MC when it was hard. *I still dont have all purples (part by choice, part by not enough loot to go around) *Now PvP started what 1.5 months ago?? *Haunted will be in all pvp purple gear what next week and you and people who tried relatively hard are to purp quality armor atm. *The reason PvP rewards are so much greater is because you fully equip yourself in one swoop now and never have to do it again whereas in PvE you have to keep doing it to get the quality of items or even close to them. *Yeah PvE rewards are prolly gonna get boosted in BWL but in our first month and a half in MC we got maybe 20 loots orso which isnt really promising for what will be around 100hrs of raiding I would assume. *And laugh at repairs all you want but when we get into bwl it will run me at least 10g a night and that adds up fast and is no joke.

So saying ohh it doesnt take as much time isnt all true because while we maybe only raided for 5hrs lets say on average at first a day to learn the zone or at least try to you sit in queue for what 8/10ths of your day in pvp. *All of which you can grind fish make money etc. *When you raid you raid and that is it you pretty much go - money and not + at all. *Sure you can lose matches in PvP but its not like you get shut out of points totally unless you are not capable of killing anythign at all. *In PvE there is no consolation prize you either kill the boss and get loot or you get nothing.

EDIT
Also that 100hrs time to learn stuff etc is 100 * 40 and you cannot have less than that if you wanna learn this stuff at all. So 4000hrs for 20 loots total which prolly 15 players will get. You dont neeeeed 40 other people to pvp either making it a lot easier cause you can do it at any available time whereas raiding you cannot.

[Cataclysm]

The risk of PvP is wasting my goddamned time. Going in CTF, rolling nine random players, playing it for an hour to lose 0-3 because of incompetent motherfuckers.

I've spent more time PvPing in the last two and a half months than I have doing anything else in this game since its release. ~12+ hours a day, per day, for the last 10 weeks, and *gasp* I'm not even rank 14 yet.

Regardless of the fact that they can keep them once acquired, the vast majority of players simply do/can not spend the time PvPing to obtain those rewards in the first place. You should see how many people are stuck at even rank 7 regardless of how much of their online time they put into PvPing simply because they don't play that much. You can't put in only 4 hours of PvPing on average per day and expect to get anywhere higher than about rank 8-9. Your rank will simply stall there.

The only semi-valid argument is the fact that raiding requires 40 players to accomplish while theoretically PvPing can be done solo (even if it's incredibly inefficient to do so.)

[Zelstrom]

Yeah sitting in the que for 45mins+ to get into a WSG that you may get your face beat in is a risk for sure. I will never be high on the PvP scale, I cannot play that much. I can raid though. I get to keep my items even if I can no longer raid, now the PvPers who had to put in more time can keep theres as well.

[Granyt]

My alt was excited about AV for the first little bit, but the current farming of it and devolution from large-scale battles to small packs of roving farmers soured me on it big time.

Granyt has never done PvP, and likely never will...designed to be a Main Tank, which really has no use in PvP as I can't taunt and control the agro of a live person :D

[Kassani]

If it makes you feel any better granyt, I don't like to pvp either. Not for any particular mis-specced reason, but I just always seem to lose when I'm against another player of the same level as me. I just don't play well against other people. *shrug*

[Granyt]

It's funny, my son LOVES PvP in all it's forms and doesn't understand why I don't, but talking to him about why he enjoys it has given me some insight into why....he hates the Horde, and when he duels someone, he hates them too. He is out to BEAT them.

I'm not. I don't duel, have never dueled, because it's too personal for me. I don't do WSG, because it's CTF and I play UT for that. I played AV for the tactical and strategic aspects only. I LOVED the big battle feel, the flanking, the resource contraints, etc. The first 2 weeks of AV were aMAzing, before the pharmers came in and ruined it.

I don't dislike the Horde at all, and have a number of guys I have fun with regularly. I'm solo and see a solo Horde in trouble with a mob, I jump in and help. I've partnered with a Tauren for hours in an area, helping each other out, flirting with emotes, etc.

I'm too social and too cooperative to enjoy PvP, I guess.

[Zelstrom]

*I don't do WSG, because it's CTF and I play UT for that. *I played AV for the tactical and strategic aspects only.

They really aren't similar, you should proably never comment on them.

[Granyt]

*I don't do WSG, because it's CTF and I play UT for that. *I played AV for the tactical and strategic aspects only.

They really aren't similar, you should proably never comment on them.

I meant no disrespect, but to me they have the same feel. I played WSG twice (to give it a try) and my son plays every chance he gets and I watch him, so it's not like I've never seen it.

It's short-term, quick-fix, with lots of open exploits and imbalances. Lots of folks enjoy it, and more power to them, but I enjoy longer term stuff.

[Zelstrom]

They really aren't similar, you should proably never comment on them.